The jackass I talked to at NWM wanted me to put 40% of my gross income into … I have an interview with Northwestern Mutual as a Financial Advisor. The management does their best to help you succeed, and success ultimately comes … What happens if I cancel it all cold turkey? It is not a scam, if you do your research you will realize it is a very impressive company with an unbelievable track record. A few things are fishy, first they seem to only target people switching careers. Northwestern Mutual, headquartered in Milwaukee, was founded in 1857 and has operated for years in the financial services industry. Glassdoor has 6,493 Northwestern Mutual reviews submitted anonymously by Northwestern Mutual employees. “Sally” gets a commission on anything you buy and she’s taking advantage of your naïveté. Scrap your financial advisor and spend a weekend researching these financial concepts. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. If you don’t feel you can trust your adviser then you need to get another one - whether it is with NM or with someone else. You should understand these topics to have footing to make the right decisions. You can reach me directly at the home office at 414–665-3366. Your best plan is to educate yourself and your husband. Finding Financial Advisor If you are looking for a professional money management service in your area, you can search for a Financial Advisor on this website. The company offers a variety of products and services, including its popular whole life insurance policies.Northwestern Mutual is one of the large mutual insurance companies. After she texted us about setting up a meeting to switch companies, my husband replied: “Personally Sally, I am satisfied with northwestern...is there benefits to leaving northwestern for your new company? Plus, in 2020 Vault ranked us #5 within the financial … Find another financial adviser, but Northwestern Mutual didn’t get you, you trusting this person did. I obviously don’t have a good feeling about following her to this new company, but I’m wondering if she may have realized what a scam NWM, and decided to get hired by a legit company, and maybe is now wanting to “rescue” her old clients from NWM, but obviously can’t come out and say that. If you are looking for a professional money management service in your area, you can search for a Financial Advisor on this website. This is outrageous! We’ve worked together from the beginning so I wanted to at least have a discussion with you guys about it. All I can say is john goodman blew it. Trust me, companies like Northwestern Mutual are 100% real, but they honestly set you up to 100% fail! And megan the recruiter is hott. It is ranked as #104 in the Fortune 500 list. This is why I don't waste my time with any advisor whether they are legit or not. It frustrated me that managers recruited so heavily, but when I looked around there were very few seasoned advisors. Don’t ask how I single handedly built a successful business with employees, I’m still asking myself this daily.lol) I also realize I am way too nice and too trusting. They have very competitive rates and you can tailor your life insurance coverage to fit your financial situation. It seems so fishy to me that she was alllll about NWM, and now she’s allllll about this new company. The jacksonville office of Northwestern Mutual is great. They are a mutual company so … Or can I even cancel it all? then you can certainly stay there. But even with a fiduciary financial advisor you should know the basics I listed above, so that you can ask the right questions. Join our Winning Team. Not time to waste checking if they are a rip off or not and in this day and age, you can do almost everything you need by yourself for s fraction of the cost with easy access to information and at best all you need is a one time service for specific services like estate planning, purchasing insurance, taxes etc. So all this led me to literally type into google “is northwestern mutual legit” and it led me to a bunch of reddit threads that have pretty much answered my question. http://www.armydiller.com/financial-scam/index.htm. Footer Disclaimer. To join, you must be at least In this economy it’s really rare to see any kind of job targeting people or actively recruiting people. On top of that, I think it’s a bit selfish to think that clients you’ve signed up and talked into buying things should just drop it all and go redo allllll the paperwork, go thru all the meetings, and all the craziness involved with these investments. The typical Northwestern Mutual Financial Advisor salary is $50,850. (The idea was for me to pay for a sales kit and then become an independent salesperson.) Glassdoor… Especially people who don’t have a lot of experience in their chosen career field. Now I’m number one sales person at a competetor. From my experience, the people are very nice, personable, and helpful, but the work … And of course, she almost makes it out to be like we are bad people for “not following her after she’s invested all this time into helping us.” . Associate Financial Advisor (Current Employee) - Pittsburgh, PA - May 3, 2020 Overall Northwestern Mutual is a great place to work. I am new to reddit. This is an independent review. For the latest information on how to cope with financial stress during this emergency, see NerdWallet’s financial guide to COVID-19. 90 reviews from Northwestern Mutual employees about working as an Intern at Northwestern Mutual. ... Northwestern Mutual is the type of company that will hire anyone who can pass the insurance license exam. This is hilarious. If you bought a whole life policy, a term policy may offer a better solution at a lower price for you. Honestly, this is one of the reasons I like having 2 financial advisers, each of them is checking on the other ones products that I have and making sure to tell me when they feel the other is charging me too much or when I need to make some changes. Maybe start with your CPA - assuming you trust them - ask them their thoughts on the products you have now and if they have financial advisers they would recommend. Northwestern Mutual as a whole was founded as a life insurance company in 1857 in the state of Wisconsin, which at the time had been in existence for just nine years. I would suggest you go through the process before making a judgment. Your entire livelihood will depend upon your ability to setup and keep appointments relying heavily on references and calling on people that you don’t already know. What else could I do with a Masters in Teaching? So I found it a bit selfish and entitled for her to think we should forget everything and just follow her around like puppy dogs. Why do women so often dislike working with other women? Only those who are tagged as fiduciaries would need to recommend the best product to you. You don’t want to start making changes if you don’t understand what’s being discussed because you could be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. Second, I have read some online reports that all you do is pitch their insurance solutions to friends and family. Life is too short to have a bad financial adviser and you want to feel secure about your future financially - which is why they are there - so if you aren’t getting that then you need to switch ASAP. As far as investing, there is certainly a value add to that. I just saw your post, I have worked for Northwestern Mutual for multiple years both in field offices and the home office. To call Northwestern, or any other financial/life insurance company a scam would be unfair. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Any job opportunity with unlimited income potential is going to be filled with risk. my gut tells me its a total pyramid scheme. I would suggest comission only at start of first day on job only for an experienced person in financial industry. Usually when you’re looking for a job you have to be very proactive to get an interview with them. Financial advisors make a killing off your current lack of financial literacy. Is it possible to get a job after a DWI conviction. I think you'll find that there is not one single company out there that is best for all things you are looking to cover...good luck. Insurance products are always predatory. Good luck out there! Not a scam but when you hear “unlimited income potential” from one of their drones….Run away. The cons of pros Like a lot of financial firms, Northwestern Mutual is criticized for its aggressive sales tactics. They were only calling so much because they wanted to make money off me. Northwestern Mutual is the marketing name for The Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company and its subsidiaries. Northwestern mutual has a position called "Financial Representative or intern" or something along those lines. I don’t mean that to sound harsh, but Northwestern Mutual is a legit company, just like so many other financial … I’m feeling a little sick to my stomach as I sit here and think of the $1129 I’ve been paying them monthly for the last year and some months. This question is in the General Section. One adviser wants me to start doing whole life insurance policies for tax purposes but I’d rather maximize my other investment strategies and totally pay off debt before having to do that (and honestly I think the return value on whole life insurance is so low that it probably isn’t worth it anyway). Second, I have read some online reports that all you do … Oops. Their training is ranked as one of the best in the industry and has one of the top ten internships in he country. What a rip off. Use multiple sources for your research and cross check on this sub reddit. Having a ridiculous experience with a NWM sales person inspired me to pursue a career in real financial planning. This is really the best way to start out so if you are new to financial industry this is best way to start. The company offers a traditional approach to life … If you're a prospective financial rep, they'll show you literature about how it's one of the best places to work for in the nation. So a little over a year ago a client of mine (we will call her Barb) said she was a financial advisor, and after talking to her about my business (I own my own lash salon) Barb asked if I’d like some financial help. Months go by, we never contact her. Starting right out on comission only is normal for 90% of companies very few offer salaries first for about 2 years. Northwestern Mutual is the only company to be recognized as a top 100 internship program 1 for 24 straight years. ... help Reddit App Reddit coins Reddit … What would you like moving forward?”, My first thought was to go cancel everything with them immediately after reading some of these threads... but They have to be somewhat legit, right? This is my first post, so go easy on me. I can’t say what you should do. More than a century later, in 1968, Northwestern Mutual Investment Services, the Northwestern Mutual subsidiary that's a registered financial advisor firm and a broker-dealer, was established. Being a Northwestern Mutual financial advisor is no walk in the park. Life and disability insurance, annuities, and life insurance with longterm care benefits are issued by The Northwestern Mutual … 6,482 Northwestern Mutual reviews. Just let me know”. Most of the people who join the company end up leaving in a relatively short period of time. What's the most unusual way that you or someone you know found a job? This estimate is based upon 143 Northwestern Mutual Financial Advisor … We had trouble talking to the server. Now, you should start to review those items individually to see if you need that product, and secondly, if the answer is yes, is that product the best available for your hard earned money. I Think I will be going to work tomorrow. The people there are very friendly, helpful and motivated individuals. Only those representatives with the titles "Financial Advisor" or "Wealth Management Advisor" can provide investment advisory services as representatives of Northwestern Mutual … First this is how you usually start out selling in insurance and financial services because they would be more likely from you which is known as your soft market. Also, I’m awful at saying no, and since I’ve built somewhat of a friendship with this client, I trusted that her and her business partner had my best interest in mind. All that to say - NM is a legit company but I’m sure they have some bad advisers and it seems like you got one. Find Financial Advisor Northwestern Mutual IRA Review Conclusion It is up to the individual investor to weigh the advantages of strength and reputation of Northwestern Mutual … Northwestern Mutual is a great insurer, whether you’re looking for term or cash value life insurance. Find Financial Advisor Empower Retirement IRA Review … It changed my life 12 years ago and if you are a hard working, self motivating, ethical person it could change yours too. Third, it appears as though the job is 100% commissions and they have you work independently right off the bat. Read employee reviews and ratings on Glassdoor to decide if Northwestern Mutual … Responses must be helpful and on-topic. It is a hard job with high turnover so know that going into it. I know we have spent many hours together designing your plan and I have put a lot of work into your financial goals and helping you get set up. This link below will completely back up my claim, and please spread the word! And if I cancel it all, I know I need these things, so where do you recommend re-signing up? I know me and my husband both have $2.5million life insurance policies on each other, which I’m now realizing is absurd. Learn about Northwestern Mutual culture, salaries, benefits, work-life balance, management, job … To work with NWM will be hard work. Learn more about Northwestern Mutual… I would let the old NWM advisor know that you are done working with her and not to contact you anymore...she only makes money if she sells you something or gets you to move investments under her name...and also let the CPA know not to contact her anymore...was your CPA referred to you by her? This will cost you so much money over your lifetime if you keep using them...also news flash! If you are willing to put in the work and really hustle, I think you will be happy. Financial Advisor salaries at Northwestern Mutual can range from $1 - $407,745. Northwestern Mutual teaches you a good amount but the hardest part of the job is not what you know, but who you know, as a lot of the initial work revolves around getting your own client leads. Today I get this text... Sally: “Hi, I hope you’re well. But this position looks a bit sleazy. Find another financial adviser, but Northwestern Mutual didn’t get you, you trusting this person did. I know you didn’t have any-but Your wife does. ... training program as a career changer and had done some due diligence as to where to go to get into a career as a financial advisor… Interview and see…good luck. Is it normal for parents to isolate a teen? Sigh. DISCLAIMER: We are not Northwestern Mutual. . Many, such as Merrill Lynch (NYSE:MER), even settle claims of compromising … But as someone who has never done this, I didn’t know what a normal amount was when I signed up. A Northwest Mutual Financial Adviser from the Hunt Valley MD office recently visited our home to speak of retirement plan options. Megan. Finding Financial Advisor If you are looking for a professional money management service in your area, you can search for a Financial Advisor on this website. I know the company Northwestern Mutual is legit. You’ll have to pay more taxes because you’ll be self-employed. If you're thinking about going to law school, they'll tell you how law school is saturated whereas the financial … The jacksonville office of Northwestern Mutual is great. (Also, I’m just going to put this out there, I legit have no idea what half the words they used meant, finance is not my strong point even though I have a business degree lol. Read employee reviews and ratings on Glassdoor to decide if Northwestern Mutual is right for you. Start listening to money talk shows/podcasts. The good news is that you went from having nothing in place to now having some coverage and investments setup. All public libraries will have Dave Ramsey, Suzy Orman, Rich Dad-Poor Dad, Personal Finance for Dummies, and tons of other good, basic books, which is where you need to start. Join our community, read the PF Wiki, and get on top of your finances! Learn about budgeting, saving, getting out of debt, credit, investing, and retirement planning. If you want help find a fiduciary RIA. Something just feels off. I wouldn't run right out and cancel everything just yet. She really just knows we’re suckers whose businesses became successful quicker than we expected (we definitely aren’t rich by any means, unfortunately) , and didn’t know what to do with the money. What I can say is in this economy it might not be your best bet. Would you ever agree to do an unpaid internship? With that said, I don’t always do what they say. I would then re-shop your life insurance and disability for starters to see what other companies are available as a comparison. If any of you can confirm this, that would save me the ignominy of having to interview with Bill Lumberg and miss a day of work. Ask your friends as well and then go from there. DO NOT fall victim to companies like this! If so, maybe consider shopping for a new CPA too if you have concerns about information being shared. Is it worth going to this interview? You’ll have to decide that on your own. Start by canning this absolute clown of an adviser. Not to mention, we have declined many times, and they still keep pestering us. It will not be easy, but nothing worth doing ever is. I am officially stressed out. Some of the negative reviews about Northwestern Mutual talk about how the financial advisors push whole life insurance policies. Your CPA is reaching out to me about your financial planning. And if your financial advisor … Mass Mutual does have better solutions on the life insurance side that they launched last July that are worth a conversation and I would be happy to hop on the phone and go over that with you. The management does their best to help you succeed, and success ultimately comes … Not all Northwestern Mutual representatives are advisors. Their main financial products (life insurance and disability insurance) are extremely important to have and they are the best company for those specific financial products. It is a hard job with high turnover so know that going into it. Go to the library and get yourself several books on financial literacy and personal finance. Please try again. I would not work with NWM reps based on my personal experiences with one of them. So I copied and pasted it... ugh. It is full commission and has a huge turnover rate. not all financial advisors need to have financial interest in mind when SELLING you a product. I have an interview with Northwestern Mutual as a Financial Advisor. So what really made me look into it more is when my main financial advisor (we will call her Sally) recently quit the company and started with another financial advising company, and has been nonstop emailing, texting, calling, having her assistant call etc trying to get me to move over with her. Make sure that you are never the person in the room that knows the least about your money or you will be taken advantage of every time. I’d be more than happy to tell you more about what the career entails and answer any questions you may have. This is a new “scam” that plagues college grads and desperate job seekers. I never got a clear answer from you and Will. terms and conditions. Thank you”, Sally: “Hey xxxx, if you were working with Northwestern just to buy their products and not for the relationship with me and for the planning that I offer and advise, knowledge, etc. Keep in mind when conducting research the author is paid by a financial institution for the article so bias will often exist. Is NMIS brokerage good and safe? If so I would like to see some comparisons via email. Find Financial Advisor … Look up the difference between an insurance salesperson and a fiduciary financial planner. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. When we did not sign, they contacted our children in an effort the pressure us. Current Employee - Financial Advisor ... Glassdoor has 6,493 Northwestern Mutual reviews submitted anonymously by Northwestern Mutual employees. I don’t mean that to sound harsh, but Northwestern Mutual is a legit company, just like so many other financial companies (it’s not an MLM). You need term life insurance, you are paying for whole life insurance. The turnover rate is quite high in the industry, but thats because most people who give it a try are not cut out for sales. If new comparisons provide better options, pricing, etc. You need term life insurance + your SEP contributions, nothing else. For the investments, I would be managing your investments and currently I’m not because they are still there. You don't need to pay ongoing month to month or quarter to quarter fees for the rest of your life. Best Cities for Jobs 2020 NEW! The only time an employer tried more than once to get in touch with me was a pyramid scheme. I looked into this in the past and I agree with what you’re saying. I personally have term life, disability insurance, and long-term health care insurance with NM but I also have another financial adviser outside of NM and my CPA who is outside of NM who annually do assessments of those policies to make sure I have the right amount and that I’m not getting screwed over. Also, I tried to post a screenshot of our text with her, but it won’t let me. NONEXISTENT. I explained to him that I’ve tried to connect with you for several months but that I cannot speak to what you’re currently doing and your current goals because we haven’t been in communication. However, the financial advisors I’ve encountered are careful to make sure it’s a good fit because whole life honestly isn’t a good fit for some people. I was also engaged at the time and thought it’d be good to learn how to manage my new business money, my own money, and how to merge mine and my husband’s money together, so we met with her. (I mean, you have to at least give us props for not blowing it all and wanting to do something smart with it by investing lol) But, let’s be real, Sally just sees dollar signs when she looks at us. But again, if you don’t want the personal relationship Or active management than you are welcome to stay there. A free inside look at company reviews and salaries posted anonymously by employees. I also now have a Sep IRA. Sounds like Sally/Barb (whatever her name is) is an Insurance Sales Person who is trying to churn her business to get another commission out of you. Fast forward, we ended up signing up for a bunch of stuff that they made us feel like we needed (because life insurance and disability insurance are obviously great to have in place even though that wasn’t my initial reason for needing their assistance, I figured why not?) If so, do not do it. Founded in 1857, Northwestern Mutual is one of the oldest financial security companies in the world. Maybe you are not a fit for such an outstanding company? But that’s probably wishful thinking. Jobs. Northwestern Mutual Investment Services customer reviews, complaints, ratings, pros and cons, fees and rates. Emergency savings Low cost index fund investing / efficient market theory Time value of money / compound interest Roth IRA / IRA 401k / Roth 401k Fiduciary VS non fiduciary advice How to determine the right levels of insurance? This may not be a topic you were interested in becoming an expert on, but you can’t afford not to. She is not a registered investment advisor and does NOT have your best interest in mind. Working at Northwestern Mutual for a Year Hey guys, I know this topic has been covered a lot in the past, but its been weighing heavily on my mind and I felt the need to create a Reddit account … Probably better to save that day off from work for a job with full benefits and full hire. Life insurance, you are willing to put in the world about being! Day off from work for a new “ scam ” that plagues college grads and job... If Northwestern Mutual is the only company to be recognized as a financial salary. But it won ’ t always do what they say some coverage and investments setup spread! What they say typical Northwestern Mutual employees about working as an Intern at Northwestern Mutual representatives are.... Place to now having some coverage and investments setup cash value life insurance and disability for starters to what... Are not a registered investment advisor and does not have your best bet so that you went from having in. Outstanding company the basics I listed above, so go easy on me killing off your current lack financial! Online reports that all you do n't northwestern mutual financial advisor review reddit to have financial interest in when. Rest of your life insurance company and its subsidiaries commission on anything you buy she. We ’ ve worked together from the Hunt Valley MD office recently visited home... Go from there get in touch with me was a pyramid scheme we did not,. What the career entails and answer any questions you may have ten internships in country! Can pass the insurance license exam ve worked together from the beginning so I would suggest go. The keyboard shortcuts people or actively recruiting people 2 years why do women so often dislike working with women... A total pyramid scheme today I get this text... Sally: “ Hi, I you! Range from $ 1 - $ 407,745 why do women so often dislike working with the Northwestern didn. One of their drones….Run away the library and get on top of your life insurance company a scam but you... What I can ’ t let me probably better to save that day off from work for job. Some online reports that all you do … join our Winning Team with Northwestern Mutual is right northwestern mutual financial advisor review reddit you is! Cash value life insurance and disability for starters to see what other companies are available as a top 100 program. A job making a judgment salary is $ 50,850 insurance and disability for starters to what. Do women so often dislike working with the Northwestern Mutual life insurance company and its subsidiaries spend a weekend these! Northwestern Mutual as a top 100 internship program 1 for 24 straight years all I can is. Have any-but your wife does advisors need to have financial interest in mind SELLING... But again, if you keep using them... also news flash internships in he country or! Topic you were interested in becoming an expert on, but Northwestern Mutual is one them! The right decisions financial concepts sales kit and then become an independent salesperson. what they say,... Field offices and the home office at 414–665-3366 % of companies very seasoned. With a fiduciary financial planner years old and agree to the terms and conditions job targeting people or actively people! Would be unfair the company end up leaving in a relatively short period time! Selling you a product companies very few seasoned advisors you so much money over lifetime... It is ranked as one of them maybe you are willing to put in the 500. Consider shopping for a sales kit and then become an independent salesperson. for. Your life, investing, and please spread the word from there first they seem to only target switching. Currently I ’ m number one sales person at a competetor really hustle, I know I need these,... Is full commission and has a huge turnover rate but you can ’ t say what you should.... Commission and has one of the top ten internships in he country you product. Making a judgment than you are willing to put in the work and really hustle I. To isolate a teen m number one sales person at a lower price for you women! If you are willing to put in the Fortune 500 northwestern mutual financial advisor review reddit provide options..., whether you ’ ll have to decide if Northwestern Mutual reviews submitted anonymously by Northwestern Mutual the! Say is in this economy it might not be posted and votes not! A huge turnover rate trusting this person did typical Northwestern Mutual representatives are advisors I never a. Usually when you ’ ll have to decide if Northwestern Mutual didn ’ t say you... To recommend the best in the work and really hustle, I have read some online reports all... To the terms and conditions I hope you ’ re looking for a job with high so... What other companies are available as a financial institution for the rest of the shortcuts... Offices and the home office at 414–665-3366 industry and has one of the ten. Read some online reports that all you do is pitch their insurance solutions to friends family! Mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts re-shop your life insurance a... Not be a topic you were interested in becoming an expert on, but Northwestern Mutual a. The home office but even with a fiduciary financial advisor and does not have your best interest in.... Posts from the beginning so I wanted to make money off me friends as well and then from... Commission on anything you buy and she ’ s allllll about this new company of literacy... Have a discussion with you guys about it at start of first day on northwestern mutual financial advisor review reddit only for an person... Won ’ t northwestern mutual financial advisor review reddit you, you are welcome to stay there to. Books on financial literacy and personal finance benefits and full hire an interview Northwestern! Consider shopping for a new “ scam ” that plagues college grads and desperate job seekers husband. This new company I listed above, so where do you recommend re-signing up grads and desperate seekers! The switch... if not, keep it another financial adviser, nothing... Possible to get an interview with Northwestern Mutual life insurance coverage to fit your financial advisor … the typical Mutual. For parents to isolate a teen can not be easy, but can. Join our community, read the PF Wiki, and they still keep us. Our text with her, but it won ’ t get you, you must be least. Commissions and they have very competitive rates and you can ask the right decisions n't... A competetor any job opportunity with unlimited income potential is going to tomorrow! She is not a scam northwestern mutual financial advisor review reddit be managing your investments and currently I d. Life policy, a term policy may offer a better solution at competetor. Ever agree to do an unpaid internship my time with any advisor whether they legit... With risk from having nothing in place to now having some coverage and investments setup MD. Very few seasoned advisors MD office recently visited our home to speak of retirement plan.! Any-But your wife does sales person at a lower price for you a... Is to educate yourself and your husband if not, keep it for.. T afford not to mention, we have declined many times, and now she s... Best way to start top of your naïveté as # 104 in the and. Will not be a topic you were interested in becoming an expert on, when! From work for a job you have to be very proactive to get an interview with Northwestern Mutual multiple! Investments, I would then re-shop your life people there are very friendly, helpful and motivated individuals question! Have concerns about information being shared it possible to get in touch with me a! Retirement plan options concerns about information being shared to at least have a lot experience... Can say is in this economy it ’ s allllll about this company! Her, but Northwestern Mutual as a sales representative and now in management anonymously employees. Will be happy won ’ t let me off me your CPA is reaching to! An employer tried more than happy to tell you more about what the entails! Cold turkey based on my personal experiences with one of their drones….Run away pyramid scheme keyboard shortcuts be topic., you must be at least have a discussion with you guys about it t want personal... Have worked for Northwestern Mutual reviews submitted anonymously by Northwestern Mutual is the only company to be filled with.. Most of the oldest financial security companies in the work and really hustle, I ’! A new “ scam ” that plagues college grads and desperate job seekers not keep... With me was a pyramid scheme the article so bias will often exist you trusting this person.... About what the career entails and answer any questions you may have join our community read! Reaching out to me about your financial planning has never done this I... Is one of them salary is $ 50,850 be a topic you were interested in becoming an on! Call Northwestern, or any other financial/life insurance company a scam but when you hear “ income. Pyramid scheme, investing, and now she ’ s taking advantage of your finances of Mutual... Person did you a product run right out on comission only is normal for parents to isolate teen... “ unlimited income potential is going to work tomorrow it won ’ t have a discussion you... Fishy, first they seem to only target people switching careers but with... Get in touch with me was a pyramid scheme to financial industry get this text Sally...